S1 E28-Empowering Women through Financial Independence with Jennifer Perri

In this episode of "Women Behind the Millions" Jessica Weaver interviews Jennifer Perri who is a Coach, Consultant and Best-Selling Author. They are also joined by Donna Cates who is part of the Women’s Wealth Boutique. Jennifer shares her journey from overcoming an abusive marriage to becoming a respected figure in the financial services industry, with a focus on safe money investments for divorcees. She emphasizes the importance of financial independence for women and addresses common barriers to financial confidence. Additionally, Jennifer shares her unique connection with hummingbirds, which hold symbolic significance to her. The episode delves into the significance of mental preparedness and ongoing support for individuals navigating divorce, beyond the legal process.

Highlights:

-Jennifer shares her empowering journey from an abusive marriage to becoming a financial advocate for women going through divorce.

-Through her work with Divorce Divas, Jennifer is dedicated to supporting women in reclaiming financial independence and overcoming myths and barriers around money.

-They emphasize the importance of mental and financial preparedness for individuals going through divorce, going beyond legal aspects to provide ongoing support and advocacy.

Contact Our Guest:

Website: https://jenniferperri.com/

Facebook, IG and Twitter: @jperricoaching

Guest's Email: jennifer@sherocoaching.com

Transcript:

Jessica Weaver 0:02
Hello listeners and money Queens viewers, welcome to Women behind the millions. I am Jessica Weaver, your host, actually your co host today because we have the divorce diva, the amazing Danna case with us who is our divorce go to guru, our divorce stores at the woman's wealth boutique. So thank you so much Donna for being on with us here at women behind the millions.

Donna Cates 0:26
It is my pleasure. And I'm really excited to introduce you guys to somebody I actually met through my marketing for divorce work. So it's a small world because I was actually out there hunting for people that could help me and I discovered Jennifer quite by accident, really, because we actually share a passion. But what I want to tell you is that I know Jennifer as the girl on the mountaintop that shares beautiful pictures every single morning. Yeah, absolutely. The Facebook posts are unbelievable. From mountain bears and hummingbirds galore, she feeds some from her hand, from her porch window. So anyway, none of that's really relevant to today except that how fabulous of a person she is. But my thing is, I want everybody to know, I know Jennifer as my sunshine, literally, she just makes me feel good and smile and happy anytime I'm in conversation with her, or even reading about her. So I'm going to introduce you as this. Jennifer is known to the big world at large as a coach, a counselor, a consultant, an author, and a speaker. But my favorite is quiet and badass.

Jessica Weaver 1:57
Round of applause

Jennier Perri 2:00
I gotta I gotta fix my eyes here. Hold on.

Donna Cates 2:05
That was the most recent book. So Jennifer, elaborate on that. Tell us more about yourself, who you are, and what you do.

Jennier Perri 2:13
Oh my goodness, I don't even know how to like, how do I live up to that? Like being your sun that was very, like literally the sweetest introduction I've ever had. You're gonna have to go on the road with me.

Jessica Weaver 2:25
That was a great intro Donna, that was, you might have a second career there.

Jennier Perri 2:29
And it meant it meant a lot to me and Donna's right, we did meet, she was actually marketing and sent over some information about finance. And I was like, Hey, we seem to be doing the same thing and we hopped on a call together. And you know, it's just been it's been a great friendship ever since. And I'm equally delighted to have her in my life. And you know, so it's, it's, it's just a good thing. But for me, I've been in the financial services industry for 20 plus years. I'm a registered financial consultant. I'm a safe, Safe Money expert, and smart money kind of person. I do majority of safe money investing for my clients. And that's everything from life insurance, to long term care, to annuity, to income planning, I like to call alimony continuation. And I do a lot 90% of my of my clientele are divorcees, and you know, we have just a wonderful time. About six years ago, I created the divorce divas and it's a community of women who you know, you can appreciate this when somebody goes through a divorce, you need more than just an attorney. You need to have somebody that may have to help you sell your house, plan your taxes, help you you know, cope through some things you know emotionally mentally, you're going with you need counselors, you may need a mechanic for your car and the last person you want to talk to is a male mechanic at this point. So we have female mechanics in the in the circle, female mortgage brokers. So we just saw a need to further uplift our community of women that were going through divorce, and I knew that I kind of checked the box for the financial aspect of things and the coaching side, but I needed another group of experts to come along with me. I have written two books. The first book was with Jack Canfield. Those are you know him for the Chicken Soup for the Soul. I was a contributing author in his book dare to succeed. And then recently in September of 2022 released Quiet and Badass, I am not quiet, but I am a badass. So that was part of the reason why I entered the book. And it was just a collaborative work with 18 other women from across the globe. And that hit bestseller. They both hit bestseller the same day that they came out. And in my spare time I am a filmmaker, a documentary filmmaker. So we have three movies that are releasing, one of them is releasing on January 31st called It's happening right here, which is about trafficking, human trafficking of your children in your own home. And that one is out. The truth about reading is coming out. And the Dickie Dickie V. Vitale story, which is on ESPN and ESPN plus. So that's what I do in my spare time.

Jessica Weaver 5:24
I'm a huge Dickie Vitale fan. So you just saw me on that. But yeah, how did you get into all of these things? This is amazing. You just your mind just must constantly be moving?

Jennier Perri 5:36
Well, you know, as far as how did I get originally into what I do? Or how do I get into the film stuff?

Jessica Weaver 5:44
The Film, your writing, business? And most of them like, how do you handle all of this?

Jennier Perri 5:50
Well, you know, I got into, I'm very big on the fact that telling people stories, writing your own story, first of all, is the most important thing. Telling people's stories, shining the light on things that people need to be aware of, reading, sub literacy, Dick Vitale, known most of my my life just because he would come in through the TV set in my home, but got to know him because of what he did for children cancer research, and became very good friends with him and his wife, Lorraine, and have spent time with them. But I believe it's just really important to continue to help other people tell their stories. Part of the reason why I do what I do is because 30 Some years ago, I was in a very abusive marriage, that really defined my life. I came out of that, he went to prison, I had two small children. And I had to figure out how to pick up the pieces of my life by myself. And there was a lot of things that I turned to find that help but I couldn't find it. And then as you continue to kind of go through life and the trials, you make triumphs and your mess, you make your message, I got to a point in my life where I was like, you know, I need to become the woman that I needed, desperately needed, I needed to become her for other women. So I'm also the kind of person that believes you meet people for a reason. Just like I met Donna for an absolute reason on purpose. And you just continue to bring those people into your fold. This isn't a competition, we're supposed to be there to uplift each other and to adjust each other's crowns without telling the world that they were ever crooked. So I'm very, I'm very big on female empowerment, if you haven't figured that one out.

Jessica Weaver 7:27
I love it. Everything you said is just beautiful. And what a strong, powerful story to share with your audience, with the women who are going through a struggle too. That's amazing that you were able to make it through all that.

Jennier Perri 7:41
Thank you.

Donna Cates 7:43
And Jennifer, I would love to ask if you can tell us a little bit about how your story. It obviously created for you the knowing that we're not all just working by ourselves that we need a community to, to get the things that we need in order to grow. But tell me how your experience has impacted your focus on money mindset. Because I know that mindset is a lot of the training and coaching that you do with women. So tell us a little bit about that.

Jennier Perri 8:15
Sure, absolutely. I noticed when I was it probably stuck out to me the most when I was married, previously married. I've been married a couple times. And previously married and my ex husband had a financial advisory firm. I handled all the female people that came in, he we were an RIA, and he did all the money management, I did all the Safe Money things. But as I noticed, we had a very different approach. He you know, somebody would come in, and he would take take on the role of handling everything that they had in their life rather than bringing the client along with them. And as I was working with women, it was very important that no matter if you're married, single, whatever, that you are independent in the middle of it, you have your own independence plan, you know how to, you know share about your money, you know how to talk about it, you know how to do all those things. And with women, there were a lot of other stuff that was floating around that was way more important than being hands on in their money. So we really started looking at what all of that all those blocks were a lot of them came from myths that they had about their money growing up, that maybe their parents instilled or their experiences instilled, or their their marriage instilled in them, and they couldn't figure out they just had no connectivity whatsoever with money. And when they sat across the table from me and I told them, I wasn't going to fix everything for them. I was going to help them walk down this path of self awareness and empowerment and all the stuff that they needed to do to be in charge of their money. It was a shift for them to now have to start confronting the things in their life that was blocking them from really taking control. So when I work with clients, I always start at you know, what is your money personality? You know, we go we go through a quiz, we identify what it is, it teaches them okay, this is why you react the way you do to money, this is something that's in your way we have to work through. So I've always been a coach, but not so much in the mindset space. As I've seen over the past few years, the evolution of that just, it just really, really needed to happen and take place. So I work through getting rid of all of those blocks. Because when if you're going to react a certain way to money, it's not everything in the world, but money makes the world go round. And how you're going to react to money and how you're going to make decisions about money is going to affect every other aspect of your life. So we have to start uncovering all of those blocks, moving them into a place of feeling confident and feeling them financially fearless. And then it's easy to just kind of continue to go down this path of just kicking the blocks out of every other area of their life. So mindset in everything is huge.

Jessica Weaver 10:59
It all starts with mindset, it sounds like, it should, it should start with mindset, the work should start.

Jennier Perri 11:05
good. You're absolutely right, it should. But sometimes people don't realize how incredibly powerful your mindset is, and how it is the one thing out of everything you have in your life that you have 100% control of, but it's teaching you how, its having somebody teach you how to use it, embrace it, not be afraid of it. And you wouldn't think that it was like this own thing. But it really is

Jessica Weaver 11:30
Not to be afraid of it, I love that..

Donna Cates 11:32
And it's common It's a very subconscious thing, because it's so ingrained in us. So to have someone like you bring it to the forefront where we're at least aware of it, then we can impact change I think. So I'd love to hear, you know, what with the women that you're working with, what are some of the major problems that you're encountering, and helping them work through?

Jennier Perri 11:55
I think the the number one major thing that I see is that they're not putting themselves first. And I think for a lot of women, they feel that that's selfish. But here you are worrying about everything else that is going on around you and in your life, and you're worrying about yourself last, and you're going to end up at a point in your life that you never wanted to be. And I know Donna, you've dealt with this with people that are retiring, and they come to you and they're like I'm retiring now, fix me for the next 30 years. And you're like, you should have met me 20 years ago, or 15 years ago, or 10 years ago, you know, so I think for a lot of women, I'm just I'm noticing that they're not making themselves a priority. They're procrastinating, and then they're just blaming everybody else, you know, it's my ex's fault, it's my boss's fault. It's my kids fault, they don't give me enough time. It's the holidays, it's taxes, it's all of these other excuses, when the only person you can blame is the person that's looking back at you in the mirror. And I think that's hard for a lot of women to hear but they have to hear it. They're not having people around them in their lives that are saying, you really just need to get your you know what together. But I you know, I was born and raised in Philly. So I'm gonna straight up tell you, you need to get your you know what together or don't complain about it.

Jessica Weaver 13:14
That's a powerful shift. I'm sure you can see it in the room when they are ready to take that accountability and take that power back. Because then you're just giving the power to everybody else.

Jennier Perri 13:25
Absolutely. And depending upon their circumstance, if I meet them coming, you know, if they're transitioning out of an abusive relationship, or a marriage where they had no control over anything in their life, or you know, I mean, they're going through a career change, or, you know, I just recently went through a really serious medical issue, maybe they're going through something in their life that they just are completely out of control. And they do not know how to reprioritize themselves or to reclaim their life. And you have to walk them to that. And it's, it's easier when they take when they just bet on themselves. Like, you know what, I was referred to you, I hear it all the time, I was referred to you don't really know what I'm doing here. I don't really know what it is you're going to do for me, I'm a hot mess. And I'm like, Well, you have about three minutes to be a hot mess. And then we're going to start you know, peeling back what we have to fix. And so it's it's, you're right, it's a powerful, it's a powerful thing for people to take accountability. It's not easy.

Donna Cates 14:25
Yeah. And I'm curious to know, when someone comes to you going- Oh, I'm a hot mess, and I don't know how you're gonna help me, but I was told that you're the person to help me. What kind of path does that take? Is it like a two or three meeting thing or a six months relationship? Describe that to us.

Jennier Perri 14:45
Sure. So, you know, it's it's different for each person. I have people that come to me that you know, they just they're really struggling with something and they need an hour of my time. That's it. They just need somebody, they need a thinking partner, that they can sit here and say I do not know what I need to do, I need you to help me uncover what my options are. That's very rare, because a lot of times once, once somebody works with me, and they see how much I'm there for them, and that I show up for them, and that I hold them accountable, I have clients that have been clients of mine for 15 years. You know, it literally just really depends. What I try to do in the divorce setting, what I do is I come alongside of whether they're going through a divorce, and they're or they're in the middle, or they're on the end, I come alongside of their attorneys, or I come alongside of their life. And I say, Okay, listen, we need to start separating the emotion from what you need to do, and we need to start paying attention, we will have that time to sort out the emotion, but you have got to keep the momentum moving forward. So for a lot of women, most of my women now, you know, I mean, I talk to them once a week, you know, a couple times a month, there are some that I talk to every week, and we are very, very hands on. So everything that I do is completely custom tailored around what the client needs. And I'm not here to tell you, I can look at you and say, we're going to be friends for a long time, because you need it. But, you know, I mean, I give them the options, I'm not going anywhere. I have financial planning clients that are now coaching clients, just because of accountability, just for somebody to hold, just like you hire a coach, you hire a fitness person you hire you know, you're trying to learn a new instrument, you go to a teacher who's gonna hold you accountable and see your progress. That's the exact same thing that I do, it's just all custom tailored around what the client needs.

Jessica Weaver 16:42
Wow, I just want to say before the next question Donna, this is such an amazing example of when you do target marketing or niche marketing and you find who you can best serve, where you can have the most impact and you just drill in on what are their needs, what's going to help them get through what what's going to give them the best results, the most transformation like Jennifer, you are a prime example, Donna, you as well, with the divorce work, you know exactly what these women are going through, you know how to best show up for them. So people who are listening, remember this, I think we're trained to work with everybody, and you can't have that much impact. But you two ladies are changing the divorce worlds for these women, and the industry and how people and experts can help them. So I just wanted to make a point of that. It's amazing work because I can feel these women that you're working with, I can see them I can picture them. You're that in depth and the details in their emotions or mindset. It's amazing.

Jennier Perri 17:40
I appreciate that. And I think that there is you're right, there are a lot of things Donna and I are trying to create a revolution in this space. Because I think the biggest thing if you if you look at the divorce process by itself, an attorneys job is to get them divorced. And that's normally when I meet most of my clients, I have great relationships with attorneys that say, this person- divorce is over, they need to start their new life, they desperately need you. So that's where I come in. But where an attorney kind of hands it off and leaves, Donna and I aren't doing that, whether she's managing money or she's doing mediation or whatever, whatever we're doing together, we are not, like we do not disappear. I have clients that I can't even I probably couldn't get rid of them if I tried to get rid of them, because now most of them have been to my house in the mountains. They know where I live. So I couldn't get rid of them. Because when you have somebody who is such a strong positive advocate in your life, and they are there to pick you up, that have been through what you've been through, they can say I've been there. There were times yep, I didn't want to be here anymore. Yep, there were times I had two cents to my name. There were times where I felt like I couldn't accomplish anything. Nobody was ever going to love me again, I wasn't going to be successful, when you can relate to somebody on that direct. I mean, literally direct, I have been in your shoes, it is powerful. And you don't want to lose that. You don't want to lose that connectivity. And there are so many traditional wealth managers. And there are so many people that are here to help you move different pieces of your life in the financial world. So that's all they do, it's a transaction and it's done. You're lucky if you get an annual review, or you get a birthday card. You know what I mean? Like it's it. And I think one of the reasons why I was really attracted to working with Donna and who she was as a person is that she felt exactly the same that I did. She didn't want to let anybody down. She wanted people to know that we were here, and that we're going to continue to show up. And that is desperately needed in today's day and age for sure.

Jessica Weaver 19:41
Yes, it's a breath of fresh air.

Donna Cates 19:44
And I will tell you let me comment on this because I do a lot of work as women are going through the divorce process. So rather than being introduced to them at the tail end of the divorce, I'm oftentimes involved early on. But it's always a constant struggle, because nobody wants to do the money stuff because they're so wrapped up in the emotions, and the what the attorney says that they have to get done. So I'm actually helping to educate them on that, like you said, Jennifer, separating their emotions from the money, number one, and it also saves them a lot of money, because they're not spending a lot of time, you know, crying and all of that with their attorneys while they're on the clock. But then the bigger thing is, is that helping them to understand that the attorneys job is to dissolve the marriage, it's not to understand what the long term financial impact is going to be on these crucial decisions that are being made when they're divorcing. So I think that's where we come in is helping people make informed decisions while they're in the divorce process before they actually sign on the dotted line and it's done. Because that's what when they show up for you, Jennifer, what for that post divorce planning, they have what they have. And that's what they have to work with, regardless of whether it was the best outcome or not. Right?

Jennier Perri 21:13
Well, and you're absolutely right. And that's something that I've been reaching out recently to the attorneys that I work with. And I'm like, You need to bring me in as soon as you have somebody that sits down with you for a consultation, you need to bring me in at that point. Because here's what's going to happen, you're going to have a new divorcee, or somebody's going down this path they've never experienced, who is going to spend so much of your time and your money, talking about what just happened, you need to send them to me so that they can talk to me about what has happened. And I'm going to help them mentally move down this path. So that when you're trying to get them as the attorney to understand the process to move into the discovery, to move into the settlement or the mediation, they already know we've role played her and I have role played before they've gotten to you about you're not going to get everything you want. This isn't going to be like sunshines and rainbows and unicorns for everybody, you are going to have to understand that. So not only are we both individually saving the client money, because we're not going to be charging as much as sitting there running a clock. I love attorneys but as much as running, you know that it's going, we can get them mentally prepared, financially prepared, organized, it makes their job as an attorney much better. So I've told them, I'm like, listen, yes, I'm great in the recovery in the aftercare, you need to bring me in at the very front, so that I can get them forward thinking because their job like you said, attorneys job is to work in the present, we're done. You and I are looking in the future, an area that they're not trained to look.

Jessica Weaver 22:46
Thats a huge differentiator, yeah, the attorneys are there for the law, right, the legal aspect of the divorce. But as you both said so beautifully, that it's it's they're not looking at the money, they're not looking at the finances down the road, even giving them their client the tools to be able to handle the finances, from day to day bill paying to budgeting, cash flow management, all of that huge change. I think the woman should talk to you before even the attorneys, right? Give me a handle on the finances before I even go through the divorce. I've had a couple recently,

Jennier Perri 23:21
I've had a couple recently, you know, and both of them found me on Instagram, like they weren't a referral, or anything. They found me on Instagram. And they're like, You know what, we're watching your affirmations, I'm watching the stuff you're saying, I really need to get my act together. Because I know my husband and I are talking about going down this path and if I don't have it together up here, I'm going to fall apart for myself, I'm going to fall apart for my kids, I'm going to fall apart for work. So I'm I'm there are women that are out there that are really understanding, I know I'm going to have to get it get my you know what together, because this is going to get ugly. And my kids need to at least have some grounding in what's going to happen. So I'm getting that more, you know, before you would get it on the other side. But I think that I think just as I don't know, the world is evolving and social media is all over the place now. And people can see all these big marriages in Hollywood falling apart, and people not having their wills and all that stuff in place. Like there are people that are really paying attention, like I don't want that to be me. I don't want that to be the legacy that I leave behind for my kids or even myself. So there's a new sense of awareness that I have seen over the past year really much since the pandemic hit. I don't know if because people are spending more time with themselves. I don't know, or doing more reading, but there is a new sense of you know what I've got to take. I've got to take things more seriously in my life. Oh yeah, for sure. Absolutely.

Donna Cates 24:54
Well, I'm just grateful to know you and have you as part of our world and the divorce divas and the divorce source and all the things that we're creating , right Jessica?

Jessica Weaver 25:03
Yes, this is amazing. And the support system women we are social beings we love that connection and that you already have that built in that the woman can step into and feel that there's women who have their back is huge, huge, especially right now. Money can feel so isolating and shameful, judge, guilt to have that support is so needed. Where, where you talked about Instagram. So what are you doing? We talked about Facebook, we got these amazing pictures. Was it hummingbirds, you said? A lot of pictures. I mean, that's a very symbolic bird. Right. We could probably do a whole episode on that. Yes, hummingbird. So where can people find you Jennifer?

Jennier Perri 25:49
Well, I'm pretty much everywhere I do. I'm on Instagram, Tik Tok, Twitter and LinkedIn. Majority of them my handles are just J Perri coaching. And that's Perry with an i , two r's. So J P E R R i coaching. I do have a Facebook group called Sheroes in training. And right now we are doing a 30 day challenge to greater self love we are in day 11. And I'm talking about decluttering your environment, spring cleaning your home, your mind, your space, everything. So I run challenges quite often and what I do I come on, and I do mountaintop motivation. That really is just if I if I have something in the week that a client has really come to me that struggling. I always want to talk on it yesterday I or this morning I released something about removing the need of perfection in your life should be project process progress over perfection. So just find me. I'm pretty much everywhere.

Jessica Weaver 26:48
We'll have those links available for everybody listening. I love the challenges, the motivation, the support there, get into Jennifer's world. And then I know Donna, you too have a ton of support. You have your second Saturday workshops, your second helping so where can people find you too Donna?

Donna Cates 27:06
My web address is www dot money matters. wealth.com And then I'm on Facebook under my name, Donna Shaddix Cate's and LinkedIn as well.

Jessica Weaver 27:20
Get in touch with the these women and every woman knows at least one person going through a divorce or have been badly abused or thinking about it. Get in touch with these women sooner than later. Because it's going to change as you said Jennifer getting mentally prepared to go into it, financially prepared going into the divorce. It's almost like you have two different plans, right you have the plan to get you through the divorce and then you have that long term plan. You need both sides of it. So thank you, Donna for introducing us to Jennifer, what an amazing interview so many good nuggets here. I'm sure we'll have to do this again. Because it was a lot of fun too. Any last words, ladies, for our money queens, our listeners, viewers?

Whats one thing that people can change their mindset Jennifer today, what's one thing they can do to change their mindset?

Jennier Perri 28:16
Oh my goodness, one thing they can do to change your mindset, I think really focus on present present moment mindset. Don't worry about what happened in the past. Don't worry about what's coming down the pike in the future. Just look at your feet. Remember right now you're grounded and be focused on the present.

Jessica Weaver 28:31
Ooh, that's a good one. What about you, Donna was one thing that helps you with your mindset.

Donna Cates 28:38
And it's funny that Jennifer should say that because my word for the year. And I don't know if you'll remember this Jessica is present. So So for me, it's all about being in the moment as well. It's amazing.

Jessica Weaver 28:52
Being in the moment, I'm gonna say gratitude, gratitude and where where the focus is right, if you're focusing on the mess, you're gonna more of the mess is gonna come right. It's gonna find you. It's just going to amplify, focusing on where you want to focus. I love that you said Jennifer being present you too Donna because even in the Bible, God says don't worry about tomorrow. There's enough today I got tomorrow. Just focus on where you are right now. And what are three things you can be grateful for in the moment and you can get those and stuff but real quick, why hummingbirds? Is there a story behind that Jennifer? I have a hummingbird story.

Jennier Perri 29:31
So they've always been around me in my life. And it's just, it's just an odd thing. And and I have a very interesting connection to animals in general. Like we could be I swear if I ever walked up to onto a bear, or we have bears in our backyard all the time. They would be they wouldn't run for me. They wouldn't. You know, so we had I've always had hummingbirds we and then we bought a condo and we were on the 17th floor, and I put a hummingbird just a feeder on the window and my husband's like, they are never going to come up here. They're not. Sure enough, they came up here. So then we moved to the mountains, Right? And we are. It's part of mountain life. Okay, so, um, we live in the mountains and hummingbirds come to elevation, higher, higher elevation first, without one feeder than to put out two feeders. Then I put out we had about 15 feeders out. And I have them on my my office windows. And I said to my husband, I'm like, before this is over, they're gonna be eating out of my hand and he's like, Okay, so now they do, they'll sit on my hand, they eat out of the feeders. They come into my office on rainy days, I'll leave the windows open. They come into my office, there's a feeder that sits on my desk, they'll drink out of it. They flit around, they go back out the door. And it's yeah, it's amazing. If you follow me on Facebook, you'll see it, you'll probably be like, enough with the hummingbirds already. Like you'll see when it comes into season.

Jessica Weaver 31:23
I've read that it It's a symbol of past loved ones coming back to see you. We have put our fur baby our dog down a few years ago, and for a week, there was a hummingbird that would come right when I was sitting at the kitchen table and stare at me in the kitchen every day for a week. And every once in a while I'll still see it. Even if we don't have any flower there it could be the dead of winter, they're coming and they're just staring. Like - Eric, There's duke, I swear! But and then I looked it up as a symbol for it. So this year, I bought myself an ornament that had a hummingbird with a crown on it. And I'm like, there we go. Nice. Big fan of the hummingbird. So thank you for sharing that. Thank you for being on here with us. Thank you so much, Donna. And thank you to everybody listening, supporting women behind the millions. Thank you so much. We are so grateful for you. We love you our money queens, and we will see you on our next episode.